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November 29, 2007
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LonesomeFaery created a new Fractal-Resources :iconfractal-resources: group.  I like the idea.  Things need to get better.  I don't see this as a real solution though.  First, I don't see anything that says that this fractal resource group will be limited to Apophysis.  If it is not, won't it get confusing pretty fast?  DA could easily do something like this new group if they allowed specific categories for Apophysis scripts, Apophysis gradients, Apophysis tutorials, Apophysis flame packs, and so forth.  But there isn't a single category where this kind of stuff is consolidated, and what categories do exist often get spammed with images themselves posted as "stock" as opposed to putting them in the stock category.  The whole DA category structure needs to be redone.  We currently have at least three different categories that I know of where I can find scripts, tutorials, gradients, packs, and images/"stock" all mixed up together, and some of these categories aren't limited to Apophysis.  It's a mess.  Until we can properly categorize our resources, there is no real way to filter the favs over at the new Fractal-Resources group to find what you are looking for because unlike galleries, favs don't allow folders...and if we had proper categories, we wouldn't need this resource group to try to overcome the deficiencies of the DA category system.  Don't get me wrong.  It's going to help, especially if it is limited to Apophysis.  But I don't see it as fixing the underlying problem.  Instead of having the same content spread over three or four categories and having a separate group set up to try to collect and organize it, we need to get DA to set up three or four specific categories.  Instead of
Resources > Fractal Resources
Resources > Tutorials > Application Reference > Apophysis
Resources > Tutorials > Digital Art > Fractal Art
Digital Art > Fractal Art
and Customization > Wallpaper > Fractals
We need:
Resources > Fractal Resources > Apophysis > Scripts
Resources > Fractal Resources > Apophysis > Gradients
Resources > Fractal Resources > Apophysis > Flame Packs
Resources > Fractal Resources > Apophysis > Tutorials
Resources > Fractal Resources > Apophysis > Plugins
Digital Art > Fractal Art
Resources > Stock Images > Fractals

Anyone else concur?  Anyone know a DA admin that could help make this happen?
  • Mood: Frustrated
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:iconstitcherladyxx:
StitcherLadyxx Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I would just be happy if fractal 'stock' was in it's own category and not cluttering up 'resources'. Yes stock is a resouce, but it needs it's own section. It would be far easier to trudge through the scripts and gradients lol. But I do LOVE the idea of sections, though I agree with Tom. If we do it for Apophysis, we ought to do it for all fractals programs. It can be done, and it would be nice. But it would depend on what DA was willing to do lol.
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:iconlonesomefaery:
LonesomeFaery Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
While the dA galleries do need to be fixed, right now the group is open for all fractal resources, not just apophysis. I think that the best thing would be for dA to integrate a way to search favourites or something....

Fortunately apophysis resources seem to be the most common in the community, so they will be the most submitted.

When people submit their resources to me over there, I submit it and put it in the gallery folder that corresponds with what it is.

I cannot change dA, but I AM trying to help out the fractal community..and this journal kind of sends me mixed messages about how you feel about my attempt to do that.

I sure hope my tone isn't bad or anything...>_>...I'm not trying to be shitty..I'm trying to tell you how I feel...please don't take it the wrong way..
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I applaud the effort. It will help. But I don't think it is the ultimate solution....just the best that can be done with what we currently have to work with.
D.
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:iconlonesomefaery:
LonesomeFaery Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah, SOMETHING needed to be done..so I did it..and am doing it...to the best of my ability.

:shrug:

what else CAN I do??
Reply
:iconslobo777:
slobo777 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Categories are just a bad start for many things in life. We need them to get things done, but they usually go wrong, or get in the way.

DA has a horrible mix of technical and non-technical categorisation, influenced by wooly thinking, and various partisan groups wanting their corner set up their own way.

I generally agree it would be nice to see technical resources categorised by which program they are for. Your suggestions seem well thought-out, and would get my vote.

I don't agree with removing Customisation> Wallpaper > Fractals though, because a separate area for "Public Use allowed" images makes it clear whether the artist wants to have their image used this way or not. An alternative might be to have some options to set up wallpaper images as part of every upload (effectively a tickbox saying "this is a wallpaper")???
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:iconkarma4ya:
karma4ya Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
great rant... im not going to offer my input becuz as usual no one would pay attention to it :) good luck in finding a solution that meets the COMMUNITIES needs cuz they say thats the whole point of DA is Community :altermind:
Reply
:iconsophquest:
Sophquest Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007   Digital Artist
:) Hi Daniel,

You do make an excellent point. All of DA's categories are being
updated, as the site grows, and as we learn what is best for
people to find their way here. I can tell you that just today in
our staff meeting we were told that new cats won't be taken
until after the 1st of the year. However, the real problem with
your suggestion is the mere space involved. Though, Apophysis
is a main fractal program used by a great majority of fractalists,
there are so many more to consider. And what *CabinTom said
is absolutely true. If one program is categorized that specifically,
then it would only be fair to do ALL of them that way.
:faint: And needless to say, that would be AWESOME, but some-
what unlikely to happen (with that many options).

:D Of course, this is why fractal clubs are so invaluable!!
*Apophysis and =ImagersFractalDDs
may very well, be more able to sort each of their
fractal program resources into the kinds of folders, of which
you speak. And ~Fractal-Resources, already has folders
for Apo scripts, tuts and flamepacks in their gallery! :nod:
I really do think it's an excellent idea!
Hopefully, the other fractal clubs are thinking along these lines.
If fractalist volunteers offer their resources to these
galleries, then they most certainly could, sort them this way! :thumbsup:
That is the BEAUTY of our new organized gallery options!

And it is my job, to make sure that all fractalists that come to DA,
know where they can go for the resources that they need here on DA.
I will be updating regularly with as much fractal information as possible
to the entire Fractal Family! :community:
Once, category changes resume in the new year, I will be discussing
our improvement options with the powers-that-be, and at the
very least, perhaps we can incorporate an easier way to find the
resources that people need. I'll put on my thinking cap! :idea:
I'll keep your note in a special file, specified for CAT changes and
will get back to you with new info at that time.
Thank you for your well-thought-out ideas! ~ And in the meantime,
perhaps you could offer your insight to all of the fractal clubs
that offer Apophysis resources. I'm sure they would be very
grateful to have you on board as a volunteer, to make things
more easily accessible for everyone.

:hug: With Respect, Sophquest
Reply
:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
What takes more space in the database, having more of a selection of categories so that you can put a resource in just the right place or having the exact same resource put in three or four different categories by three or four different groups?
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:iconmonochromatic-stains:
but we have Digital Art>Fractal Art :D
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah. Did you see the horse that someone just posted there? [link] LOL
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:iconmonochromatic-stains:
why do people have to go and 1. Rip stuff that isn't art. and 2. Post in the best catagory on here.
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:iconcolliemom:
Colliemom Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Another semi-solution is for everyone to use the same keywords:
Apophysis Flames, Apophysis Script.
etc. You can do a search using keywords and get some results.

Just a thought....
Reply
:iconladylyonnesse:
LadyLyonnesse Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007
Well, you have a good point, Daniel, but isn't this supposed to be the idea behind *Apophysis? A lot of the resources you mentioned are stated on their Resource Links page. It would be a great help if all the resource creators, such as yourself, would submit their work to this site, then everything WOULD be in one place. As it is, the Apo group relies on users as well as creators to inform them of when a new script, gradient or flame pack and tutorials are added. I know of quite a number of resources which are not listed, and sometimes I do point that out, but I feel the creator of a particular resource should be the one to submit their new work. None of your work is listed there so those of us who want to use a script of yours know to find it on your My Fractals site, but there are lots of people on dA who don't know about your work and therefore never see it.
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
When I post a script, I put it in my DA gallery, put it on my My-Fractals site, announce it on the Apophysis mailing list, and put it in one of the three categories that I know of that contain Apophysis scripts. I chose the one I use based on the fact that it was the category that *CabinTom uses for his. The point though is that if there was a single category for Apophysis Scripts as opposed to finding them scattered over three or four different categories, we wouldn't need groups like *Apophysis or ~Fractal-Resources (to name just two) that we would also need to submit our stuff to in order for folks to find them.
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:iconladylyonnesse:
LadyLyonnesse Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007
"When I post a script, I put it in my DA gallery, put it on my My-Fractals site, announce it on the Apophysis mailing list", yes, but there are many fractal people, especially the newbies, who have never heard of any of these sites. If you submitted to the Apo group, then anyone interested in Apo Resources would find it there. If I was new to the program, the first place I would look would be a site named for and specifically related to "Apophysis". I have put myself forward to =LonesomeFaery as her helper in resources on the new :devFractalResources: site. This was immediately after reading your journal. If accepted, I will suggest to her that we place all resources in the gallery and have them sorted into folders as you have suggested. I'm not sure if it is possible to have a folder relating to each program, but at least if we have all scripts in one, tutorials in another etc. I'm sure that would work. Also in the image title we could specify Apo, UF, FractEx and others, so that the name pops out immediately.
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think that would be great. My point is though that when I write a script, I can think of about five or six different groups that I could submit it to (Apophysis, DeviousFractals, ImagersFractalDDs, Tubaholics-Anonymous, FractalResources, and MarbliciousFractals). They, in turn, could post it in their galleries and, depending on which one they chose, you could end up with the same resource being submitted to my DA page and re-submitted to four or five other DA groups so that we can ultimately spam three or four different DA categories with the exact same thing. As much as I like my own scripts, I don't want them repeatedly posted like the recent Explosions Script. It's been posted four times recently by the author and three different "groups", and the solution isn't to have the author submit it to Apophysis so that they can post it as well. The reason we need groups like Apophysis is that there isn't a single place to go to find what we are looking for. These groups are a good way to find resources that are not posted in the particular categories that you frequently browse, but a lot of the work of these groups would be eliminated if the categories were sufficient. That's just my opinion though.
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:iconladylyonnesse:
LadyLyonnesse Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007
Because so many creators submit their work to 3 or 4 different groups, I don't think they'd be prepared to submit to only one. They want as much exposure as possible. I also don't think the admin at dA are likely to comply with your request for a restructuring of the categories because then they'd have to do it for everyone.
I have quite a bit of spare time. Maybe I'll go through the dA site and make a note of resources which aren't listed with their group and ask for them to be submitted. I will also keep my fingers crossed for the Fractal Resources people. You have to remember as well that Renderosity.com also hosts a fair number of resources for Apo. And on top of that, there is the Wiki site.....and others.
:(

Erm, it's beginning to look like too much work for one person!
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:iconcabintom:
CabinTom Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007   Digital Artist
I like the idea, but there are many other fractal programs out there. If it were done for one then they'd have to do it for all of the others. So I'm not sure how the problem would be solved.
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
We'd have more categories specific to different applications, but I think it would be a big improvement. I'm sure that folks looking for resources for those other programs really love having to weed through all the Apophysis resources. LOL
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:iconclairejones:
ClaireJones Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Professional General Artist
Have you tried taking this to ^Sophquest yet? She might be able to make some of this happen.

One issue, though. Fractal tutorials will always be placed under the "Tutorials" section. I doubt dA will ever put them anywhere else.
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:icondjeaton3162:
djeaton3162 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I dropped her a note and asked her to stop by.
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